1994 351w Swap

[bowlergt]

I've decided on my winter project. I'm going to swap a 351w into my 94 GT. The plans are to rebuild the 351w and put new pistons in. Swap my trick flow setup onto it. And possibly swap in about a 3000 stall while the engine is out. I'll try to keep an update on pictures. Bold parts are ones I have already.

Parts:
351w Block with stock internals
Pistons
Oil Pan for 351w Swap
Oil Pump
Gasget Set
Bearings
750 Carb
351w Carb Intake
351w Distributor
Motor Mount Bushings
ARP Head Studs
14psi Fuel Pump
Tank Pickup
3000 Stall Converter
If you have any of these parts and want to sell them let me know! I will also have some parts for sale such as a trick flow upper and lower intake if anyone is interested.

[Boombastic86]

Looks good, but that's going to be quite the chunk of money you'll be spending to do all of this. All in all I would've just kept the turbo and slapped it on the 302.

[bowlergt]

Most exspensive part will be that lower intake other then that theres no real exspensive parts

[Boombastic86]

Most exspensive part will be that lower intake other then that theres no real exspensive parts

If you do the stall the way you properly should you're looking at a big chunk of money there as well. Trust me, priced the whole torque converter stuff up before.

[bowlergt]

The converter is last if money permits but I would of done that turbo or not. Im honesly going to try a stall off ebay says up to 500hp and has a 14 month warrenty lol

[LX2NV]

you can beat a 351's ass with the 3" mains. much stronger setup than a 302, should be reliable while boosting. also should you feel the need stroke it to a 393 on the cheap (302 pistons, stock 351 rods, 299 dollar scat crank from summit and then you got some serious cubes that people just cant mess with and you can make 450-550 horse reliably, with a buttload of torque too. if you need any help or advise, let me know.

[bowlergt]

UPDATE: Picked up a complete 351w for $100! Also since there was no way of getting the engine out stopped and picked up a nice cherry picker for only $75. So far so good Ill see how much I can get disasembled tonight.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/P1020120.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/P1020121.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/P1020122.jpg

Got everything off but the waterpump (having a hard time getting it off) and the heads. Might wonder why it is not on the engine stand well the idiot at Jegs when I bought it sold me a set of bolts and said they would fit on a ford block.. wrong!

Also have been debating instead of fuel injection going carbed.. What do you guys think? Heres my reason as I am on a budget the lower trickflow intake I need is a little over $300, injectors around $150-200, MAF again around $150 so around a total of at least $600 to upgrade my fuel injection. If I go carbed I can sell my upper and lower trickflow intake (maybe for what $200?) that will buy me a carb intake and then a few $100 for the carb. Also saves me because I was going to upgrade my fuel rails. So if I go carb I can save around $400+ any comments? This car will be driven at the track and maybe once or twice a week it is not a DD.

[LX2NV]

you're going to get mixed opinions about the carb swap. those who have paid for tunes will try to justify the the money they spent, and the dyno shops will defend efi. my opinion.... for a non daily driven, all buisness, toy/strip car it will be cheaper and easier to extract horsepower yourself.... i'm all for it...plus your efi components will cover all the swap. unless i opened the hood on my cars you would never know it was a carb'd setup, with the proper ignition and "tune" you will loose 0 driveability. my .02.

[PEDD01GT]

you're going to get mixed opinions about the carb swap. those who have paid for tunes will try to justify the the money they spent, and the dyno shops will defend efi. my opinion.... for a non daily driven, all buisness, toy/strip car it will be cheaper and easier to extract horsepower yourself.... i'm all for it...plus your efi components will cover all the swap. unless i opened the hood on my cars you would never know it was a carb'd setup, with the proper ignition and "tune" you will loose 0 driveability. my .02.


:agree:

I went carb'd and have absolutely no regrets. My car has great street manners, and is all in all much better for me considering every time I change a component (which is often LOL) I don't have to run out and get a tune. I will however take it to AHP in the future and get some dyno pulls and A/F readings.

[GTkyle]

:agree:

I went carb'd and have absolutely no regrets. My car has great street manners, and is all in all much better for me considering every time I change a component (which is often LOL) I don't have to run out and get a tune. I will however take it to AHP in the future and get some dyno pulls and A/F readings.
I forget, do you have a wideband?

[LX2NV]

I forget, do you have a wideband?


no, but one of these days i'm gonna talk him in to splitting a aem, or a fast wideband with me. honestly though.... really don't need one, it would just make the tuning process quicker and easier.

[69BOSS9]

I have a edelbrock performer 351w intake all bolt holes a good, just needs cleaned up. 35.00

[GTkyle]

no, but one of these days i'm gonna talk him in to splitting a aem, or a fast wideband with me. honestly though.... really don't need one, it would just make the tuning process quicker and easier.
Yeah thats what i was thinking. If you see a consistent lean/ rich spike at a certain RPM, go back into the garage and change out jets.

[bowlergt]

Few qustions for you guys if I go carb. Will any carb intake for a 351w fit my trickflow heads? What size carb do you recommend for my setup? I was also thinking in case I want to go efi again could I leave the wiring in the engine bay maybe make a metal box to hide it all in or in the fender well. What all wiring is with the efi besides injectors and MAF? Besides the carb and intake I need a new fuel pump for the lower psi or what? Also do I need a new distributer? Thanks guys

[PoonRacing]

Yes, the heads will be fine, go probably atleast 750cfm carb up. you need to ditch the stock fuel pump because on carb you need no more than 13-14 psi tops. you do need distributer you can found an Ford duraspark that will work fine but for the price better off just buy a new MSD one.

[PEDD01GT]

I forget, do you have a wideband?


As Matt said no, but I'll get around to picking one up

[PEDD01GT]

Few qustions for you guys if I go carb. Will any carb intake for a 351w fit my trickflow heads? What size carb do you recommend for my setup? I was also thinking in case I want to go efi again could I leave the wiring in the engine bay maybe make a metal box to hide it all in or in the fender well. What all wiring is with the efi besides injectors and MAF? Besides the carb and intake I need a new fuel pump for the lower psi or what? Also do I need a new distributer? Thanks guys


I'd go with a vic jr. intake and a 750cfm carb. When you unplug the computer, pull the wiring through the firewall into the engine bay. You have two main harnesses under the hood, the eec/engine harness and the body harness. If you unplug everything along the engine harness you will be left with just the body harness on the driver's side of the bay everything else will pull right out (don't try to leave it in the bay, it would just make a confusing mess). At this point, everthing should still work that you need except the fuel pump and of course the ignition system (don't cheap out on this one and buy a duraspark setup, your efi sell off will provide the funding for a nice CD box and dizzy). Now back to the pump, simply find the wire going to the back of the car for the existing pump under the drivers side kick panel and tie your new relay in there. When you put an external pump on for your new app., you will either have to buy a new pickup, or modify your stock one. This all seems much more confusing then it actually is. PM me if you'd like further info. on this swap.

[bowlergt]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__HOLLEY-4160-SERIES-750-CFM-VAC-SEC-CARB-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ280278495005QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20A ccessoriesQQadiZ2865QQddiZ2811QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20Tr uckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItem?hash =item280278495005&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A331%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 Will that Carb work?

[69BOSS9]

Depends on the camshaft you run. A car with a bigger cam dont supply enough vacuum to run that carb. A 650 dp carb would work for your car with a larger camshaft. Also meant to ask does your heads have the dual bolt pattern for headers?

[PEDD01GT]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__HOLLEY-4160-SERIES-750-CFM-VAC-SEC-CARB-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ280278495005QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20A ccessoriesQQadiZ2865QQddiZ2811QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20Tr uckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItem?hash =item280278495005&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A331%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 Will that Carb work?


I like running mechanical secondaries

[bowlergt]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS%2DK514%2D350%2D370&autoview=sku

This is what I have for the car. I know 0 about carbs so some info would be nice. As for a cam, I have the cam in the kit so I dont know if I should get a new cam. And I dont know what you mean by dual bolt patterns.

[PEDD01GT]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS%2DK514%2D350%2D370&autoview=sku

This is what I have for the car. I know 0 about carbs so some info would be nice. As for a cam, I have the cam in the kit so I dont know if I should get a new cam. And I dont know what you mean by dual bolt patterns.

What cam is that in the combo, stage 1 or 2? I am running a TFS stage 2 for now, however I will probably buy a different cam (or go custom grind, LX2NV can tell you more about that route or something more suitable for a 351 build) this winter. I by no means know a whole lot about cams, but I believe I want to head toward something with a 110 lobe separation opposed to the 112 of the TFS 2 (many builders have told me this, but again, I am not that knowledgeable where in depth cam specs are concerned).

[ICEMAN]

Cool project... I'd like to see how it turns out...

[bowlergt]

UPDATE: I got the block torn down with pretty much no problems. The pistons and cylinder walls are very clean which really surprised me since the heads were filled with gunk. Tonight (after cleaning up a huge oil mess in the garage) I will get pictures of the block. Also hope to get it cleaned and maybe painted. Since the cylinder walls are so clean I think I might use one of those ball/flex honers and just clean them up. Collecting parts little by little but also getting some great deals. I will get pictures of everything tonight when I get home. Need an opinion from you guys, I am going to paint the block I was either going to go with black or Ford Blue. What do you guys think?

[bobtsgt]

I have a Mallory 351w distributor with vacuum advance. Only has about an hour of run time on it. Plus a cap and wires. PM me if your interested in it.

[PEDD01GT]

UPDATE: I got the block torn down with pretty much no problems. The pistons and cylinder walls are very clean which really surprised me since the heads were filled with gunk. Tonight (after cleaning up a huge oil mess in the garage) I will get pictures of the block. Also hope to get it cleaned and maybe painted. Since the cylinder walls are so clean I think I might use one of those ball/flex honers and just clean them up. Collecting parts little by little but also getting some great deals. I will get pictures of everything tonight when I get home. Need an opinion from you guys, I am going to paint the block I was either going to go with black or Ford Blue. What do you guys think?


I've done both (black block and blue). Go black.......

[bowlergt]

Hey with the wiring I can unplug and pull out everything on the pass side right? I shouldnt have to cut anything and I leave the computer in correct?

[PEDD01GT]

Hey with the wiring I can unplug and pull out everything on the pass side right? I shouldnt have to cut anything and I leave the computer in correct?

You shouldn't have to cut anything and take the computer out, you won't need it anymore. I sold my auto computer and harness on ebay (including the injector and O2 harness). Believe it or not, guys pay top dollar, I got almost $500!!! Most guys only get around $300, but either way, it'll buy your carb

[bowlergt]

Dont I need the computer for my AODE transmission? Only reason I would leave it in is in case I want to switch back to fuel injected later on.

[PEDD01GT]

Dont I need the computer for my AODE transmission? Only reason I would leave it in is in case I want to switch back to fuel injected later on.


Forgot you were an SN auto car, wasn't even thinking about AODE. I am clueless when it comes to an AODE. Can someone chime in here? Is there two plugs that plug into his EEC opposed to the one on a manual? If not, maybe you should leave the wiring in the bay, or under the dash or something. Or spend the money and get a stand alone setup for it (what I'd probably do), however I think they cost $300 to $400 new.

[PEDD01GT]

The more I sit and think about it (and again, I know nothing about AODE's and how they work), I would say you'd have to go with a stand alone setup running a carb. With everything else unhooked, I'd say the EEC wouldn't be able to tell the tranny when to shift, so you would need the stand alone, swap to an AOD, C4, or manual. I believe George (Black Shadow) has stand alone, if he's willing to part with it, and I also believe Boombastic has a very low mile AOD with a shift kit in it, and I have a z spec manual. So atleast you have options if that's the case.

[bowlergt]

I want to keep the AODE if I can, I've read it is stronger then an AOD and as always a swap wasnt in the budget lol. Already found a stall for it. Anyone know if I can remove my wiring in the engine bay and keep the computer and AODE?


Anyone know if I need a special piston to work with the trickflow heads. The description of the heads on summit says I dont need fly cut pistons which I have no idea what that means. I found a guy on corral with brand new forged Speedpro pistons cut by DSS, he says they are for Inline/Canton vavle heads. I have no idea what that means but does anyone know if those will work? He wants $225

[bowlergt]

Will http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ACC%2D59208&N=700+115&autoview=sku that distributer work well for me? I found one for around $100 and thought it was a good deal. Let me know if I should grab it! Thanks

[bowlergt]

UPDATE: Well tonight got the block completely apart. Found out one of the pistons leaks around the piston rings. No big deal they are not being reused. Hit the block with some degreaser then loaded it in the bed of my truck to take to the car wash lol. Brought it back blew it off with the compressor and hit the cylinder walls with WD40. Going to paint it tomorrow. Now on to parts I found some great deals on a manifold, new fuel pump and regulator, distributer (if you guys can tell me if the one listed in the post before this one is good I'll buy it for less then half the price) and hopefully a pickup for the tank.

I am having problems deciding on a transmission. I have yet to find out if the AODE will still work even with the rest of the harness unhooked. Was told I could switch over to a manual valve body but the only one I found so far is on summit for $700 and that is pointless. I could swap to the AOD I am finding a lot of cheap parts for those does anyone know if it is a direct bolt in?
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/P1020127.jpg
Old Stuff
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/P1020125.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/P1020123.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/P1020124.jpg

[LX2NV]

ok, those 170 heads are small for a 393, it's going to run out of breath real quick unless you're boosting it. camshaft.... it will work but it's a 302 cam, much, much better cams out there. carb......vacume secondaries is what you want for a auto. distributor......if you plan on running a vic. jr. intake there is only one distributor that will work for you.

[bowlergt]

Im going to use an edelelbrock intake. As for heads only reason Im using those is I already have them and defitnatly don't have a budget for new ones unless someone wants to trade me heads

[95COBRA]

www.sorscode.com (http://www.sorscode.com)

This is a good site. Might answer some of your questions

Jason

[LX2NV]

Im going to use an edelelbrock intake. As for heads only reason Im using those is I already have them and defitnatly don't have a budget for new ones unless someone wants to trade me heads

lol, which edel. intake (dual planes are for 4000lb cars)? the heads will bring 700-900 dollars, a bigger used set in the same condition will cost the same. 351's have a heavy rotating assembly, you HAVE to let them breathe to wind up the way you want it to. camshaft selection will kind of make or break the whole thing depending upon what pistons you buy and your compression ratio ends up being. are you running a turbo on this car ?

[LX2NV]

forgot to mention, the whole tranny thing... i think your easiest way out would be a aod, or a bauman stand alone controller for the aode. go auto if you're going to boost this thing, otherwise auto's are garbage IMO. tko all the way :rock:. i see your posts over on corrall, i gotta say be careful because you'll get your apples and oranges mixed up real quick. i like hainging out over on sbftech.com, smart guys, brutally honest, tough neighborhood, but there's alot to learn over there.

[LX2NV]

Yeah thats what i was thinking. If you see a consistent lean/ rich spike at a certain RPM, go back into the garage and change out jets.

or a squirter, or a acc. pump cam, etc.

[bowlergt]

This with be N/A that's why Im doing a 351. As for the intake not sure buying it off a guy on here for $35 can't argue with that. As for tranny not sure what Im doing Im going to call I think its transgo and talk to them.

[Adam Smith]

Yes you need special pistons made especially for Trick Flow heads. They with have reliefs in them that are staggered. A piston with just reliefs machined into it won't work. I have a set of TRW's(speedpro same thing)in my 357 that were made by DSS I believe. They are flattops with the reliefs with a 61cc TFS it should be 11 or 11.5-1 compression. BTW, this is what happens when someone uses the wrong year intake gaskets.:idiot:
http://modularmisfits.com/forums/files/dsc03352_119.jpg

[LX2NV]

Yes you need special pistons made especially for Trick Flow heads. They with have reliefs in them that are staggered. A piston with just reliefs machined into it won't work. I have a set of TRW's(speedpro same thing)in my 357 that were made by DSS I believe. They are flattops with the reliefs with a 61cc TFS it should be 11 or 11.5-1 compression. BTW, this is what happens when someone uses the wrong year intake gaskets.:idiot:
http://modularmisfits.com/forums/files/dsc03352_119.jpg




you do NOT need a set of special pistons to run t.f. heads.

[LX2NV]

ok, let me be honest here, the heads are small, the cam is totally incorrect for the application, shorty headers and a dual plenum intake will choke it even further. it's going to have a buttload of torque and it will lay down at 4000 rpm's, like someone hit a switch. let me say this... i paid 800 bucks for my canfields, sell the tfs cam and get a more approiate comp cam...something like a xe282hr, since it looks like you're running a late model block, get a vic.jr., and longtubes if you can swing it. slow down and be paitient and rethink a few key components. you'll be pissed in the end if you dont.

[bowlergt]

I was planning on getting a new cam anyways I wasnt going to use that cam. I wanted something a little more stout. As for longtubes that might be a problem as I havnt found any for the 351w swap and will work with an automatic.

Also believe I found a solution for my tranny computer problem. I'm going to call on monday to make sure but http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TRG%2DAODE%2D3&view=1&N=700+4294908331+4294904003 that kit from transgo is for full manual operation for transplants with no computer should be perfect :rock:

[Adam Smith]

you do NOT need a set of special pistons to run t.f. heads.

So your saying regular reliefs are going to work? If the reliefs are side by side(like they usually are) the valves (or at least one)is gonna smack the piston, explain it to me please.

[LX2NV]

So your saying regular reliefs are going to work? If the reliefs are side by side(like they usually are) the valves (or at least one)is gonna smack the piston, explain it to me please.

yes, i have seen stock reliefs clear, i've even heard of 86 stock flat top's working. trick flows are still considered a "inline" head. i have heard/seen cases where the relief needs a small "notch" to clear. depends on the camshaft. but you dont by any means need a "special" piston. most aftermarket pistons will accomodate t.f. heads. sounds like you don't completely understand what you're talking about.

[bowlergt]

Ok guys what do you think I could sell my entire 302 currently in my mustang, block has about 80,000+ miles on it, the trick flow heads, cam, intake? or if I part it out. I was looking on summit and found http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL%2D2092&autoview=sku that setup from Edelbrock and they clain 400 hp and 425 ftlbs on a stock 351w, that is well in my power goals. If I could sell my stuff for close to that I think I will buy that kit.

[LX2NV]

Ok guys what do you think I could sell my entire 302 currently in my mustang, block has about 80,000+ miles on it, the trick flow heads, cam, intake? or if I part it out. I was looking on summit and found http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL%2D2092&autoview=sku that setup from Edelbrock and they clain 400 hp and 425 ftlbs on a stock 351w, that is well in my power goals. If I could sell my stuff for close to that I think I will buy that kit.


no dude, quit looking at those garbage packages. those heads are worse than what you have now. jeasus i thought you were starting to listen....

[Adam Smith]

yes, i have seen stock reliefs clear, i've even heard of 86 stock flat top's working. trick flows are still considered a "inline" head. i have heard/seen cases where the relief needs a small "notch" to clear. depends on the camshaft. but you dont by any means need a "special" piston. most aftermarket pistons will accomodate t.f. heads. sounds like you don't completely understand what you're talking about.

I understand completely. Most aftermarket pistons will accomodate TFS heads you say. Aftermarket pistons aren't special custom pistons? A piston with valve reliefs isn't special to clear a cam or otherwise? Here is a pic of a TFS head. I have a F303 cam in my motor, not big at all. If these reliefs are not in the exact spots like in the above pics or not there at all, I would have PTV contact....game over. No flattop is going to work, and a piston with reliefs "inline" isn't going to work without some modifications, therefore making it a "special" or "custom" piston. I am not here to argue really, but you are giving out what I would call, questionable tech.
http://modularmisfits.com/forums/files/dsc03348_253.jpg

[LX2NV]

just wanted to add... my build is way more thought out than yours, much much better components also.....i will be floored if it makes anything close to 400 horse.

[bowlergt]

Ok I apreciate everyones help but I have a goal of only 400 to 450hp no more.. If those edelbrock heads are worse then what I have and they claim 400 I should be within my goal with a good cam correct? That's all Id like to know this second.. thanks

[LX2NV]

I understand completely. Most aftermarket pistons will accomodate TFS heads you say. Aftermarket pistons aren't special custom pistons? A piston with valve reliefs isn't special to clear a cam or otherwise? Here is a pic of a TFS head. I have a F303 cam in my motor, not big at all. If these reliefs are not in the exact spots like in the above pics or not there at all, I would have PTV contact....game over. No flattop is going to work, and a piston with reliefs "inline" isn't going to work without some modifications, therefore making it a "special" or "custom" piston. I am not here to argue really, but you are giving out what I would call, questionable tech.
http://modularmisfits.com/forums/files/dsc03348_253.jpg


you my friend are giving out questionable tech. i have been playing with these cars since you mom was breast feeding you. i have personally seen twisted wedge heads on a 86 lower end, matter of fact there is a person on this board that was running them on a 86 low end. do a little research, but yes, i would not run them on a 86, but i have seen it. and by the way it's not the lift that gets you in trouble, it's the overlap, again do some research. it's not questionable tech...it's called the truth. :crying:


sbftech.com , educate yourself.

[PEDD01GT]

no dude, quit looking at those garbage packages. those heads are worse than what you have now. jeasus i thought you were starting to listen....


I agree when you say the heads are still too small Matt. But you are talking opinion when you say the TFS 170's are that much better than the Edel RPM 170's. I ran the Edel heads, and beat everyone I lined up against that were running the TFS heads on a comparable setup (before any work was ever done to mine), including spanking your buddy, remember? I was also running a $150 cast shortblock. So, the edel's are worse than the TFS head comment is just "your opinion". And don't throw the online flow charts at me, I proved it to you and myself in person at the track that the Edel's can hang. With that said, I am very happy with my new TFS heads as well.

[bowlergt]

So between the edelbrock and the trickflow I know it says the edel will make 400 hp will the trickflow with a cam

[LX2NV]

ok, you guys got me. throw it together and good luck with that 400 horse thing.

[Adam Smith]

you my friend are giving out questionable tech. i have been playing with these cars since you mom was breast feeding you. i have personally seen twisted wedge heads on a 86 lower end, matter of fact there is a person on this board that was running them on a 86 low end. do a little research, but yes, i would not run them on a 86, but i have seen it. and by the way it's not the lift that gets you in trouble, it's the overlap, again do some research. it's not questionable tech...it's called the truth. :crying:


sbftech.com , educate yourself.
I don't think all of this was called for, but it you wanna be an asshole thats your perogative. I wouldn't take any advice from you simply on the basis of your "my way or no way attitude". The tech I am giving out is called safe, no one is going to have PTV contact if they listen to me. I am done with this thread, good luck bowlergt and take everything "MR WINDSOR" says with a grain of salt, he seems to have a "I have never been wrong, but I was mistaken once" complex.;)

[LX2NV]

I don't think all of this was called for, but it you wanna be an asshole thats your perogative. I wouldn't take any advice from you simply on the basis of your "my way or no way attitude". The tech I am giving out is called safe, no one is going to have PTV contact if they listen to me. I am done with this thread, good luck bowlergt and take everything "MR WINDSOR" says with a grain of salt, he seems to have a "I have never been wrong, but I was mistaken once" complex.;)

hey, you started it fu*k face. i'm a straight shooting guy, this is how i learned, don't get angry with me because i have a better understanding of ptv clearence than you do. yes i have been wrong, yes i have done things that later i wished i had done differently. my intentions are not to be a a-hole, i'm just trying to give straight foward advise so someone doesn't end up making a costly or disappointing mistake, i have been there.

[69BOSS9]

Throw it all away and run a set of cleveland heads on that windsor.:tongueout:

[LX2NV]

Throw it all away and run a set of cleveland heads on that windsor.:tongueout:


LOL, there ya go ! a high flowing canted valve setup. i see someone else here gets it, thank you. edelbrock has some new badass "clevor" heads that were just released.

[LX2NV]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i248/rbarn1234/headcompare.gif

[69BOSS9]

LOL, there ya go ! a high flowing canted valve setup. i see someone else here gets it, thank you. edelbrock has some new badass "clevor" heads that were just released.Yeah they do. I ran a set of "mildly Ported" very mild and they had flow #s way above tfs or ede's. However.....bowler could see #'s close to if not 400 with the right cam,carb and intake. The deal is though being a mostly street driven car he should care more about low end TQ #s than big HP #s even though sometimes they relate. A good dual plane intake will help with the torque on a street motor than will be running at tops 5500 rpms. I made 600+ with a dual plane on a 406 windsor with 12.5 to 1 and a .665 solid roller cam. Every combo works dif in dif ways.

[LX2NV]

Yeah they do. I ran a set of "mildly Ported" very mild and they had flow #s way above tfs or ede's. However.....bowler could see #'s close to if not 400 with the right cam,carb and intake. The deal is though being a mostly street driven car he should care more about low end TQ #s than big HP #s even though sometimes they relate. A good dual plane intake will help with the torque on a street motor than will be running at tops 5500 rpms. I made 600+ with a dual plane on a 406 windsor with 12.5 to 1 and a .665 solid roller cam. Every combo works dif in dif ways.


:agree: all about the combo. the parts have to work together.

[69BOSS9]

:agree: all about the combo. the parts have to work together.+ 100 and remember he is trying to start from scratch with very little $. So give it a good foundation and the high $ combos can come later. Thanks for the flow # chart. Cool to see what some of the stuff really flows.

[PEDD01GT]

:agree: all about the combo. the parts have to work together.


You haven't been wrong at all in this thread. Edel or TFS 170 heads will in no way be any good for a 351. I sold mine, because they were too small for my 347 combo. You know I agree with that Matt. I just have personal experience on smaller motors with the edel RPM's and had good luck, that's all.

Bowler, look into the heads I'm running at Summit....TFS 190's. They are very new to the market, and are very well priced.

[69BOSS9]

You haven't been wrong at all in this thread. Edel or TFS 170 heads will in no way be any good for a 351. I sold mine, because they were too small for my 347 combo. You know I agree with that Matt. I just have personal experience on smaller motors with the edel RPM's and had good luck, that's all.

Bowler, look into the heads I'm running at Summit....TFS 190's. They are very new to the market, and are very well priced.They will only be too small if he raises compression and needs to feed it alot of fuel. I have used these heads and others on 351's and for what he is doing they are fine. They will help produce some low end torque and give him power to 6000 rpms. And remember he is on a budget and doing it slowly. He already owns the tfs heads guys.

[PEDD01GT]

They will only be too small if he raises compression and needs to feed it alot of fuel. I have used these heads and others on 351's and for what he is doing they are fine. They will help produce some low end torque and give him power to 6000 rpms. And remember he is on a budget and doing it slowly. He already owns the tfs heads guys.


Oh....I absolutely agree. I like the TFS and Edel's equally. If he has the TFS 170's and is on a budget (like most of us are) then by all means, he should run em'. That's the great thing about a good set of aluminum heads, once they are ran, they hold a great resale value for ever. So, he can run those now, and down the road upgrade if he wants more out of the combo. Who knows, it may be all the more he'll want out of it.

[69BOSS9]

Oh....I absolutely agree. I like the TFS and Edel's equally. If he has the TFS 170's and is on a budget (like most of us are) then by all means, he should run em'. That's the great thing about a good set of aluminum heads, once they are ran, they hold a great resale value for ever. So, he can run those now, and down the road upgrade if he wants more out of the combo. Who knows, it may be all the more he'll want out of it.+1 Down the road you never know what wild combo he could put together,but he could make some good power for what he is doing\, like you said. Gotta crawl before ya run,Right?

[LX2NV]

+1 Down the road you never know what wild combo he could put together,but he could make some good power for what he is doing\, like you said. Gotta crawl before ya run,Right?

yes, you're right. i'd stick with the tfs heads he allready has. the question now is what cam will allow this thing to breathe to it's max potential. let me think about this.....

[LX2NV]

i need to know what pistons you will be running. i'm assuming these are 64cc heads ?

[bowlergt]

they are 61cc heads and I'd like opinions on pistons. For now till I get enough money to do the heads I am also going to wait on the 393, so I need a good piston for a 351 to get me by

[LX2NV]

they are 61cc heads and I'd like opinions on pistons. For now till I get enough money to do the heads I am also going to wait on the 393, so I need a good piston for a 351 to get me by


ok, we're on a better track now. i'd look at a flat top piston with about a 7cc relief, something like a keith black 151, that would land you're compression around 9.7:1-10.2:1 off the top of my head... depending on what cam you run. i'm still thinking something like the comp xe282hr for a cam. edelbrock air gap (at least), or a vic. jr.

[69BOSS9]

Whats the stock compression? its already at 8.7:1 right? With a cometic headgasket and 61cc heads it should come up a little and if you dont have to bore the block until you build your stroker why change it unless you get a set of pistons that raise the comp. for cheap without doing the machine work. Its always better to bore a block once rather than twice.

[LX2NV]

yeah, but to run a cometic gasket you got to have perfect surfaces. dont forget about quench either... no less than .030 and no more than .050

[bowlergt]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/1105082333.jpg

Got my intake thanks Turbo'dnotch, little high temp paint and a little detail work on the lettering. I plan on doing the block in blue, everything else on the engine in silver except for wording like on the Trick Flow valve covers the lettering will also be blue.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-351-Windsor-Ford-Accel-Distributor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a543Q7 c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp 3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem380077361755QQitemZ38007 7361755QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries This a good deal if I can win it?

Also need suggestions for a cam!

[69BOSS9]

WOW, that thing looks great. Cant wait to see it all together.

[PEDD01GT]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/1105082333.jpg

Got my intake thanks Turbo'dnotch, little high temp paint and a little detail work on the lettering. I plan on doing the block in blue, everything else on the engine in silver except for wording like on the Trick Flow valve covers the lettering will also be blue.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-351-Windsor-Ford-Accel-Distributor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a543Q7 c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp 3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem380077361755QQitemZ38007 7361755QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries This a good deal if I can win it?

Also need suggestions for a cam!


If you haven't done so already, I'd clear the ever living hell outta that intake! Hi temp paint will not hold up for squat if and when you spill gas on it during jet changes.

[bowlergt]

Got my holly Fuel Pump and regulator in the mail today! Carb is on its way along with my tank pick up. Not missing many parts now, can't wait to put it all together.

[69BOSS9]

If you haven't done so already, I'd clear the ever living hell outta that intake! Hi temp paint will not hold up for squat if and when you spill gas on it during jet changes.Great idea. +1

[bowlergt]

Got my tank pickup today brand new would of cost around $110 got it for $45 shipped and its still new. It has a return as well I dont need that correct?

[69BOSS9]

Got my tank pickup today brand new would of cost around $110 got it for $45 shipped and its still new. It has a return as well I dont need that correct?Not for a carb car.

[PEDD01GT]

Not for a carb car.


assuming he's running a dead head pump....

[Whitestang5oh]

Is your list of parts needed/have up to date? Looking for anything else? I have a few parts laying around from my swap

[bowlergt]

Everything not bold, its pretty much up to date

[bowlergt]

Got my Carb today! Holley 750cfm will clean it up and do a rebuild be good as new
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/1111081719.jpg

[LX2NV]

found this over on sbft and thought of you guys .....





The line of site on an EFI edelbrock victor 5.0 is better than a Victor jr? http://sbftech.com/Smileys/default/huh.gif

You cannot just look at lower. No way. There has got to be a plenum and there has got to be a TB. No way around that. If you can design, build, AND PACKAGE a better mouse trap than what the boys at edelbrock have done, we are all ears. As Zane said, single runner stacks with a TB at the top is the ultimate.

Point #1: Set a carb on top of a victor jr. Open the blades. What do you see? The back of the intake valve.

Point #2: Put a TB on ANY EFI upper. Bolt the upper to the lower. Set the lower on the head. Open the TB blade. What do you see? A black hole.

Point #3: The best EFI upper & lower set up (currently) is the TFS-R Box. The first thing is guys b!tch about price. Goes back to design and packaging. On a SBF it ain't easy. With the upper top off, the line of site is "pretty good". Still NOT EVEN CLOSE to a victor jr but it is not bad for EFI. Good, high tech design, fits packaging concerns, yep, it is going to mandate a premium. Still has 10" - 12" of runner too.

Point #4: Stick your head on the flow bench. Now flow your head through a victor jr and then flow it through ANY efi upper and lower. The efi will not only kill the airflow, but ruin it.

Point #5: Sure the victor jr has longer runners on the ends. But did you measure them? Do you know what the differences are? And did you check the taper in the runners too? In the end I don't see this being a big deal. Especially ported. My Wilson Victor jr that is setting here has fixed any shortcomings that may be perceived.

Point #6: This is why the dominator style TB or the 4150 style TB bolted to a carb style intake converted to EFI is the cat's meow. Yes the system must be SD and a stand alone is all that you can do, but by far and away this is the way to go. It'll take a month of Sundays to get right and still in the end, how much better is that vs calling Patrick and getting a carb? That is a bolt and go! And, how much better is a stack with a TB?

[LX2NV]

basically carb'd cars make more all out raw power. http://sbftech.com/Smileys/default/pimp.gif (javascript:void(0);)

[bowlergt]

Time for an Update. Got bored last night so my roommate and I started tearing apart my car.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/P1020143.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/P1020146.jpg

Here is a picture of part of the harness still in the car, I'm not cutting anything but can someone tell me if I can remove all this? I can remove everything on the passenger side correct?

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/bowler207/P1020144.jpg

[bowlergt]

Any ideas what I can sell my harness and computer for?

[PEDD01GT]

Any ideas what I can sell my harness and computer for?

take good pics and list it well on ebay. My 92lx aod computer and harness brought $485 and an additional $40 for the O2 sensor harness!!! Granted this was above top dollar, but you never know...

[bowlergt]

Well havn't updated in awile. With the cold and my other hobby taking off I havn't really touched the car. My other hobby being going to the range with my new Ruger 9mm :rock: Anyways on with the updates. Summit was kind enough to send me two offers in the mail, spend over $200 and get $50 off, spend over $100 and get $30 off. I used both duh. Lets see I got my carb rebuild kit and new choke (someone will have to help me with this rebuild) I got new Trick Flow Chrome valve covers, poly motor mounts, braided fuel line, all new stainless bolts for the motor. I'm probably forgeting a few things but I'm well on my way. I also picked up the 130 amp alternator from Cleveland for a good price. I also have my new sony amp and speakers to put in.